Idle solenoid - anyone know where to get one?

[sammy]

Hi folks,

I'm converting my car from carbies to Independent Throttle Bodies MSII.
I'm using GSXR 750 bodies and for Cold Idle control I want to use a simple on/off Idle Solenoid.
I've heard that some old Ford carburetted cars had them. (Possibly others?)
I've search the wrecking yard but can't seem to find any.
Does anyone know what cars would have one?
Are there any alternatives?
I'm trying to keep costs down by scavenging from the wrecking yards, but If I can’t find any I’m happy to buy a new one, I just need to know what to look for.

Thanks
Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

If you're in the UK,ford ISCV's are plentiful,generally under the inlet manifolds on mondeos,fiestas etc,etc

John

If interested I can post piccy of my setup (cheap and cheerful)

[sammy]

HI John,
Thanks for your response.

I'm in Melbourne, Australia.

The Solenoid that I've been trying to find is a simple on/off one.
With ITB they generally used to hold the throttles open a fraction while the engine is cold (i.e. to raise revs and minimise stalling).

Is the ISCV the same as an Idle soleniod?

A freind of mine had a similar setup to what I'm doing, he just happened to have an old Ford solenoid lying around and found it was a perfect fit, but I just cant seem to find one anywhere.

Following is a pic of his setup that worked fine (he doesnt have the car anymore)


I would really appreciate if you can do me a favour and post a picture, that way I'll have a better idea as to what I should look for when looking for an ISCV
.
Thanks in advance
Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

I think we are at cross purposes here,the Ford ISCV is a Valve (Idle Speed Control Valve) which allows air past the butterflies
see pic,one fitted and my spare (with additional copper/brass fittings) on the top of the air rail..

John

[sammy]

Hi John,
I thought that we may have not been talking about the same thing, but I wasn't sure - hence why I provided the picture.
Are you actually using 4 throttle bodies like me?
My understanding is that your setup only works if you have a single throttle body.
As you mentioned, the ISCV allows air past the butterfly, but in my case there is no place behind each butterfly to rout the air in.
This is why I’m going down the on / off Idle solenoid approach.
BTW, I’m using Suzuki GXSR 750 1998/9 throttle bodies

If you think it can be done, please let me know, as the ISCV is definetly easier to find than a on / off Idle solenoid .

Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

The air rail and little rubber connection pipes can be seen in the piccy (don't know why its not a real piccy),but my throttle boddies are I think suzuki (GPZ750?)but are mounted together on two small angle bars (easy re-spaced) ...

John

[Stag76]

VB 6 cylinder 202 Commodores had an idle solenoid similar to the one pictured. They were also used for idle-up on carburetted cars with air-con (80's Barinas etc). If you want to use an ISCV, early Hyundai Excel's have a Bosch 3-wire valve.

[sammy]

Hi Stag76 & John

Thanks to both of you for your help so far.

I searched a wrecking yard all day today (Pick-a-Part in Campbellfield, Melbourne) but I couldn’t find a Fast Idle Solenoid anywhere.

I searched through all the old Commodores but I don’t think any were VB’s. They seem to be difficult to find these days. I also didn’t see any 80's Barinas.

I'll try Commwreck in Airport West, they specialise in Commodores so if they don’t have one I will give up!

Meanwhile I’ve been giving some thought to using an ISCV.
I’ve been looking at Johns picture , I can't quite see how it would be rigged up to the 4 throttle body setup I have.

Please have a look at the picture of my throttle bodies.


Under each throttle there are 2 ‘ports/holes (whatever)’ that come out after the throttle butterfly valve.
• One hole from each of the bodies is linked (together) with a rubber hose and will be connected to the MAP sensor. (A,B C & D)
• Of the remaining holes, two of the have a rubber hose attached and are not connected to each other. (E & F)
• The remaining 2 have a rubber stopper plugging up the hole. (G & H)

I’m wondering if I can use the second holes (i.e. E, F, G & H) to direct air past the Throttles for Fast Idle and use an ISCV to manage the air flow)

John, is this what you did? I’m sorry but I can’t seem to make it out from your picture

Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

I don't think you need all the take-offs if you plumb it like mine,just the four,not copyrighted...

Another piccy ,this time from the other side showing the Vacuum take-offs joining the Vacuum rail,the ISCV at the end,there is also a take off for the Map sensor (not connected at the moment as I'm running Alpha-n) and another take-off for the fuel pressure regulator

John

2011_0327iscv10001.JPG

P.S. can't understand why it's not loading the piccy itself,but just click on the above an it comes up...

EDIT Just thought where the confusion might be,my connectors A,B,C,D come up through the ali mounting rail,rubber sleeved to similar on the Vacuum rail...

[sammy]

Ah Yes ….I've got it now - thanks John !.

You have a common Vacuum rail that connects to the ISCV. I assume the other side of the ISCV connects to your air filter?
So in my picture, the holes marked E, F G & H can be the individual vacuum hoses that connect to a common rail and then to the ISCV.

And I can also continue to use A,B C & D for the MAP vacuum.

Fantastic!

BTW
1) when you say it runs on Alpha-N with no MAP sensor, I thought the idea of passing air into he TB after the butterfly was to force the MAP sensor to trigger more fuel (based on the extra air) and hence the revs go up ?

2) what car do you have, are you happy with the MegaSquirt?

3) Sorry for all the lame questions, I still fairly new to Mega & EFI so my knowledge is not quite there yet 

Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

1)am running alpha/n because as soon as the throttle is touched the Map signal shoots up,(seems usual with ITB's ) and is no good for controlling the fuelling

2)I have a 1968 LOtus Elan Plus2 with the Lotus Twincam 1600 engine.

Megasquirt has been a huge learning curve for me,lots to digest,lots of help from the forums (Ms and Ms extra) but have had it fitted this last three years and still tuning,only yesterday I changed my TPS (which had slightly different values) so had to alter settings,my car was doing 27mpg before fitting Ms,is now returning 37mpg with no loss of the fun factor-just better efficiency and will be happy if I see 50 mpg,can't see why not-low weight-aerodynamic shape,etc.etc.
John

[sammy]

Hi John, I’ve always wanted a Lotus, but then again, I want a lot of things

My favourite cars are generally Italian and British … which are probably the least reliable – but the most fun

I have a long term plan to get to the UK and find a decent – old – Lotus or similar to bring back down here.

Maybe once I finish my current project.

I currently have a couple of Alfa Romeo Alfettas, I’m converting one (the Sedan) to EFI because I want it to run more smoothly, better performance and better economy.
At the moment it has 2x40mm double barrel Webbers and I’m only getting 8.5 Kilometres per litre

Thanks for your help with this so far.

BTW, do you have any you Tube vids of your car , I’d love to see how it goes and how the TBs sound / look etc ..

Sam

[john.p.clegg]

Sam

Sorry no vids as I can't connect my box brownie to my laptop,but here's a photo....

lotus front left.jpg

John

[sammy]

Hi John,
with your IAC valve step-up on the Independent throttle bodies, does the Megasquirt actually control the valve such that it provides a variable air supply based on coolant temp & engine revs, or have you set it up to just provide an on / off air supply?
i.e. does it alway let the same amont of air in or does it vary depending an the conditions

Thanks in advance
Sam