Solder and Iron

[PSIG]

...I've got to go back and find out some more about "tinning," but I get the impression that you should be able to get the solder to sort of adhere to and coat the tip? I have had small areas on each of the cheap soldering iron tips I've used, including the Radio Shack cheapie. It appears to me that the surface of the cheap tips like that is just not consistent...

I've used a 15 and a 30 watt junk ($5 each) irons for a bunch of projects and they are still going strong. The high dollar ones are REAL nice but IMO not necessary for the small user.

To keep the tips tinned, you need to clean them from time to time. Several times per project I will use a wet paper towel to wipe the tip off so the solder flows evenly on it. I just fold it into a pad and rub the tip on it. If I get distracted and the tip really cooks and wiping is insufficient, I will either let it cool to use a soapy kitchen scrubby on the tip or if hot, a quick pass of a wire brush (careful for spatter!) or similar. I've used the original cheapie tips for many years now.

BTW - a great combo is RS flux in the small squeeze tube and the small diameter solder. Fluxed wires and such just suck up the solder like a vacuum. Love it! Clean it all off with 91% rubbing alcohol when you're done.

Hope that helps,
David

[Tjabo]

Thanks for the help guys!

I may just pony up the cash for the 379 before I put my kit together, but either way I think it would be nice to have some good flux like you mentioned PSIG, and so far I haven't been able to find any. None of the many radio shacks in the area even know what liquid flux is, although they have flux in a petroleum jelly base that comes with an applicator brush.

I was hoping Howard might have some, but in a quick search of their site, I didn't see it. Does anyone know of a good online source of some nice flux in a handy little dispenser? If "RS" meant radio shack, maybe they have an online store site I can check out, but I guess I'd prefer to deal with some place that really specializes in this unless there just isn't a difference. . .

Thanks again!

Thad

[fordfanboi]

Snagged a kit with a holster, sponge, and 20w/40w switchable iron ( am only using the 20w setting ) from RadioShack last eve and 0.022" and 0.032" solder. I've never done PCB soldering or much soldering at all, but using the "heat one side, apply solder to the other" method, I had NO troubles building the simboard in just over an hour.

After finishing the simboard, I started in on my MS II and was amazed at how fast the DB-37 went. Often it was 3-4 seconds between posts using the 0.022" solder. So far, I've really only used the 0.032" solder on larger holes where I bent over tabs, etc.

So far so good. This thread is the reason for my success so far! THANK YOU!

Oh, one thing to add, I unrolled quite a bit of solder off the spool and have a big 1-1.5' string ( still connected to the spool ) I hold onto when soldering. That way there's no tension when applying the solder to the joint.

[Tjabo]

.022" huh? I'll have to try that. Is it normal to use .022" on these things, I'd only read about using the .032"?

[sharpshooter33]

No-Clean Solder 63/37 ($12.00/lb):
http://www.howardelectronics.com/amtech/nc500.html

Many people solder with too small tip.
Also consider the #460 tip cleaner instead of sponge. Much better.


--
Eric Fahlgren http://www.not2fast.com/

Does the No-Clean Flux Solder need to also have flux added before soldering?

Looks like they are including the #460 tip cleaner now with the 379?

Thanks
Getting ready to send in my order

[Peter Florance]

The no-clean has flux that works well, but doesn't have to be cleaned.
It's a clear alcohol-based flux.
 
Peter Florance
First Fives.Org - The E12 Registry
1981 Euro BMW 528i w/3.5L & Megasquirt Fuel Injection
1981 US BMW 528i "Repo Car"
http://www.firstfives.org
mailto:peter@firstfives.org (peter@firstfives.org)
ssr# 284

From: sharpshooter33 [mailto:sharpshooter33@adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:37 AM
To: megasquirt-assemble@msefi.com
Subject: Solder and Iron




efahl wrote: No-Clean Solder 63/37 ($12.00/lb):
http://www.howardelectronics.com/amtech/nc500.html

Many people solder with too small tip.
Also consider the #460 tip cleaner instead of sponge. Much better.


--
Eric Fahlgren http://www.not2fast.com/


Does the No-Clean Flux Solder need to also have flux added before soldering?

Looks like they are including the #460 tip cleaner now with the 379?

Thanks
Getting ready to send in my order



This post is at: viewtopic.php?p=111950#111950


Posted by email.

[McAdam]

I built my MS v3.0 with a 20w pencil I bought at a dollar store. I did go to radioshack for some fine solder and a de-soldering bulb, which I only had to use once!

[T3Bunny]

Wow this thread brings back some memories...

But I wanted to answer a question I saw that was not answered and add a thing or two.

Using a butane soldering iron is perfectly acceptable and a good idea from the standpoint of being ESD safe. I like them cause they can be set to run hot, but a beginner needs to run them a bit cooler. Be careful and clean the tips religiously!

I can't stress enough though, get a QUALITY ONE. I saw the Snap-On one linked above, go to Sears instead and grab a Weller P2K kit, its basicaly the same with a smaller butane resivoir for almost a third the price at about $50. But I would be careful about anything cheaper than that... After using one of these for more than a few hours, it does start to get a little hot.

The Weller Pyropen is a much nicer unit but more expensive. I ONLY use that for soldering on boards and tend to save the P2K for underhood wiring. Ebay is a good place to snag a Pyropen for a reasonable amount, I got mine NIB for $55!

Order a spare tip or two for the above as they are not avalible in your average local store. I own them both and several other soldering irons. The butane ones are definatly my favorites to use. BE CAREFULL with the tip vent direction. Keep it venting away from the board....

I am also going to advise AGAINST a tool I see above. Desoldering wick. Its way too easy for a beginning solderer to overheat the board with it. I have been soldering for ages and I STILL can't ever get desoldering wick to work for me. And it ALWAYS kills my feeling of soldering zen! Radio SHack sells a desoldering iron with built in bulb for a hair over $10. I have lost more packs of desoldering braid than it cost for this iron. The iron applies a lot of heat quickly and then you can even use the bulb to cool the hole or blow it out. It was such a good investment, I wondered why I had spent so many years without one! And you can actualy desolder a multiple DB conncetor with one of these in a minute or so.

[Art Vandelay]

I just started soldering today with a 30 watt iron from Radio Shack. I'm working on the stim, and although my connections look good, at each connection it looks as though the pcb has melted slightly. Is this normal, or do I need to adjust my technique? Hope I haven't damaged anything...

[Art Vandelay]

Got pictures?

Got one...

http://www.mustang-svo.com/pictures/megastim.jpg

[Art Vandelay]

Good info, thanks!

[naviathan]

I didn't see anyone mention a hot air soldering station. I realize they would be more expensive, but is there an advantage or disadvantage to these when assembling an MS ECU?

[T3Bunny]

I am not an expert on hot air systems... But I did a lot of research when looking for my station. Hot air systems are more geared towards reworking and repair of surface mount boards. I don't think one would WANT to spend 5hrs listening to a noisy hot airsystem. You use it for the neccisary job and shut it down.

Also expense... I did not come across one that was less than $400, after you get the needed additional adapters. Unless your doing stuff like chipping factory ECU's, its pointless to get one. If you were doing lots of through hole repair work, they might pay off too.

For repairs, I find that the $10-14 Radio shack iron with the sucker bulb attached to it, works GREAT. I do a lot of repair work. I think some of my customers just sit around drinking and devising NEW ways to smoke their ECU units...

I picked up one of these from Apogee kits and I have left the butane ones in their cases since I got it.



I am AMAZED with this one for its price! I realy wanted a weller, but I couldn't find one with these features for anywhere near the price of this one. I have been very plesantly pleased with it to. Mine even came in that "weller blue" so I can pretend its a weller anyways!

[naviathan]

Awesome reply, thanks for the info. I might have to look into that one.

[theredhorseman]

I'll chime in here about the Cold Heat soldering irons.

The cold heat setup uses a carbon tip that heats up very rapidly and also cools rapidly, which can help eliminate burns, it is also battery powered and you can use it just about anywhere. It is a pretty good tool for what it is, it works well for small soldering jobs, bigger jobs like tinning larger wires with it is an exercise in futility. It is definitely not a replacement for a quality adjustable heat soldering station, but is certainly a useful little tool.

I assembled most of my 3.0 PCB with one using the optional fine tip, due to the nature of my job I get down time where I can tinker with stuff like this. Doing this at home in a reasonable amount of time really wasn't an option for me due to school, wedding planning, and my work schedule.

Assembling a megasquirt can be done with the cold heat, however I would highly suggest not soldering the ICs in with it as it does pass a small amount of current through the tip, which may fry an IC. This of course is easily avoided by putting DIP sockets in.(I merely soldered the ICs in with my iron at home. You definitely need to buy a small board from radio shack and a pile of cheap resistors and caps to practice with, it doesn't solder quite like a regular iron will(read the instructions!), and it's easy to get cold joints or burn the PCB.

You will go through a pile of AA batteries though, it is not very efficient and it's claim to being able to perform "hundreds" of solder joints on one set of batteries is pure BS, I think I used up about 16 AAs.

Cliff notes:
Cold Heat soldering irons can work with some practice, but they are still not a replacement for a real soldering station. Don't use one unless you really have to.

[Peter Florance]

Just a reminder that Howard Electronics still offers a 5% discount to MegaSquirt users for soldering stations and supplies
http://www.howardelectronics.com/

Just enter megasquirt in the discount code at checkout for additional discount.

No affiliation other than being a 15 year satisfied customer.

For 50 bucks before the discount you can get a decent temperature controlled station.

[esso]

i've bought a 30W iron , and a 70/30 0.8mm wire with built in flux , is this items are right or do i need to change any
thanx in advance

[Peter Florance]

i've bought a 30W iron , and a 70/30 0.8mm wire with built in flux , is this items are right or do i need to change any
thanx in advance

If it's 70% tin, you'll probably have trouble using it with a non-temperature controlled iron.
If the flux is anything but rosin, you may have trouble with corrosion.


Kester 44 (activated rosin flux) 63/37 is the easiest to solder with (with the iron I mentioned above) but it does leave a lot of flux behind.